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Methods, Problems and Solutions

Sources of X-ray Film for Gandolfi, Precession and Weissenberg applications

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Extra suggestions on available brands of film is appreciated


Summary - August 2003

Known available X-ray films suitable for Gandolfi, Precession and Weissenberg applications. (available from Henkenind


Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 20:15:17 
Subject:  Suppliers of "no screen" film for Crystallography??
From:  L. Cranswick [lachlan@ldeo.columbia.edu] 
      Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, Columbia University
Newsgroups: sci.techniques.xtallography


Does anyone have a list of available brands and suppliers
of "no-screen" Crystallographic X-ray film for Gandolfi,
Precession and Weissenberg applications (single side and
double side film if available)

Does AGFA still produce anything?

(I've been told that Kodak is going to stop production
of their "no-screen" film in the near future - so
alternatives may have to be sourced?)

Thanks in advance,

Lachlan.

Lachlan M. D. Cranswick
Geochemistry - Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, Columbia University
PO Box 1000, 61 Route 9W Palisades, New York 10964-1000 USA
Tel:  (845) 365-8662      E-mail: lachlan@ldeo.columbia.edu
Fax:  (845) 365-8155   WWW: http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/~lachlan/
  CCP14 Xtal Software Website: http://www.ccp14.ac.uk


From Mark Bowden

Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 00:53:59 
Subject:  Re: Suppliers of "no screen" film for Crystallography??
From:  Mark Bowden [m.bowden@spamblock.irl.cri.nz]   
       at ComNet Networks, Industrial Research Limited, New Zealand
Newsgroups: sci.techniques.xtallography


We have been using Agfa "Structurix D7" double sided film for a while
without any major problems.  I guess a supplier outside New Zealand would be
more convenient for you...

Mark Bowden
Ceramics Team
Industrial Research
New Zealand


From Miguel Gregorkiewitz

From gregor@unisi.it Fri Jun 15 16:25:49 2001
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 17:28:28 +0200
Subject: Re: STX: Suppliers of "no screen" film for Crystallographic X-ray  work???
To: Lachlan Cranswick 

Dear Lachlan,

Some time ago, we compared 3 brands of photographic film
materials suitable for powder diffraction cameras (Gandolfi etc):
Kodak Direct Exposure, CEA Verken Reflex, and AGFA Structurix
D7. The first two were quite similar in grain size and Ag/m^2, and
CEA also offered 1-side coated material (code# -15 instead of -25).
Agfa Structurix D7 was much finer in grain size and slower (by a
factor 5 or so), but had the highest resolution. A pity that it comes
on blue base which was not as nice for scanner readings. There is
now another emulsion too, Structurix D8, which seems more grainy
and rapid, but we didn't test it yet.

As far as we know, Agfa is continuing production, Kodak was
available until a few months ago here in Italy, but for CEA Verken
there may be problems. I'll let you know.

If you are looking for alternative Ag-photographic emulsions, we
were quite happy with Kodak MINR and Kodak NMB which were one-side 
coated fluorescence screen containing mammography films, a bit
expensive but acceptable speed and resolution. X-OMAT seems a
popular brand among resellers and hospitals, but was terribly foggy
with high background, we never understood why. Also not very sensitive
(~1g Ag/m^2).

For some reading try:

S Abrahamsson et al, J Appl Cryst (1981) 14:256-260.

WC Phillips & GN Phillips, ibid (1985) 18:3-7.

There was also a IUCr comparison of about 20 different emulsions
in commerce during the 70 or 80ies, I can find a copy in my
archives if you like.

Anyway, we have probably all to think about IPs, or learn to make
our own gels soon!

Best

Miguel

Miguel Gregorkiewitz
Dip Scienze Terra, UniversitÓ
via Laterina 8, I-53100 Siena, Europe
fon +39'0577'233810 fax 233938
e-mail gregor@unisi.it


From Miguel Gregorkiewitz

From: gregor@unisi.it
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 08:57:24 +0200
Subject: film material
To: l.m.d.cranswick@dl.ac.uk

dear Lachlan,

the bad news is that CEAverken indeed has closed its production
of photographic material.

Agfa is continuing with Structurix D7 and D8, the latter being faster
by a factor of 1.7 at the cost of lower resolution, but they couldn't
specify me at what level, I think resolution may be sufficient for
most X-ray crystallographic work. Unfortunately, however, D8
comes only in ugly formats like 30*40 cm2 or larger.
best

Miguel

Miguel Gregorkiewitz
Dip Scienze Terra, UniversitÓ
via Laterina 8, I-53100 Siena, Europe
fon +39'0577'233810 fax 233938
e-mail gregor@unisi.it


From Miguel Gregorkiewitz

From: gregor@unisi.it
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:41:46 +0200
Subject: references
To: lachlan@ldeo.columbia.edu

Hi Lachlan,

here go the missing references. #1 and #2 are to Nguyen's program 
for Debye-Scherrer film digitalization, #3 to my paper on the 
interpretation of Gandolfi patterns regarding the missing reflections, 
and #4 to the IUCr report on about 20 different film materials:

JH Nguyen, R Jeanloz. A computer program to analyze x-ray 
diffraction films. Rev Sci Instrum (1993) 64:3456-3461.

B O'Neill, JH Nguyen, R Jeanloz. Rapid computer analysis of X-ray 
diffraction films. Amer Mineral (1993) 78:1332-1335.

M Gregorkiewitz. Geometrical limits and improvement of the 
diffraction optics in Gandolfi cameras. J Appl Cryst (1994) 27:855-
859.

SC Dawson, M Elder, OS Mills (on behalf of the Commission on 
Crystallographic Apparatus of Int Union Crystallogr). A survey of X-
ray film characteristics. ~1986

As far as I know, Nguyens program is the only code which 
accounts for azimuthal alignment and ellipse fitting, although 
something in this direction has also been done at ESRF (Pulford et 
al, ESRF Report 1994/5, p.79). 

*************
The IUCr report has probably never been published, so I just send 
you a copy of this and all the staff I put together some years ago 
when I was interested in an optimized Gandolfi attachment. You 
will also find a brochure referring to such attachment as realized by 
a small manufacturer in Spain, the device works quite well but I 
don't know if they are still interested to fabricate it.

Cheers
Miguel

Miguel Gregorkiewitz
Dip Scienze Terra, UniversitÓ
via Laterina 8, I-53100 Siena, Europe
fon +39'0577'233810 fax 233938
e-mail gregor@unisi.it


Date: 15 Aug 2001 11:00:43
Subject:  Suppliers of "no screen" film for Crystallo No responses
From:  Pieter Kuiper [piku@itn.hh.se] Lund Institute of Technology, Sweden
Newsgroups: sci.techniques.xtallography

I am looking for x-ray film for a course lab.

We currently use Kodak X-OMAT in "easy-pack" envelopes (obtained from
PhyWe).

Another option would be buying a Polaroid cassette and using the 3000
ASA film.

I also saw that Leybold has filmpacks that do not require a dark room.
http://www.leybold-didactic.com/ga/Produkte_Allgemeinbildung_bis_6x/5/554/554892/554892e.pdf

Does anybody know how the x-ray sensitivities of these films compare?
(our copper-anode source operates att 25 kV)

Would it be a good idea to use a system with a fluorescent screen?
Recording Debye-Scherrer diffraction takes 6 hours, so reducing the
exposure time is desirable, and our resolution is poor anyway. Any
suggestions?

PS: I am interested in second hand x-ray apparatus for our course lab.
So if somebody has outdated equipment (photographic detection, low
resolution) gathering dust in the basement, I might like to come by if
it is in Northern Europe.

--
Pieter.Kuiper@msi.vxu.se           http://www.msi.vxu.se/~pku/


Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 22:00:22    
Newsgroups: sci.techniques.xtallography
Subject: X-ray film for Gandolphi Camera work 
From: Rondi Davies [rdavies@amnh.org]

Greetings,
I am trying to locate a new type of X-ray film and supplier in the US
(east coast) for Gandolphi Camera work. We have been using Kodak direct
exposure film however they are no longer making it. I have heard that
Agfa Structurix D7 film is a possibile repacement however I am unable to
locate a supplier here in the US. Any information about film and sources
is most appreciated.

Rondi


Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 22:34:12    
Newsgroups: sci.techniques.xtallography
Subject: Re: X-ray film for Gandolphi Camera work 
From: Bev Vincent [MaxDevore@hotmail.com] at Molecular Structures Corporation(msc.com

"Rondi Davies" [rdavies@amnh.org] wrote in message news:3E88AC66.1070409@amnh.org...

> Greetings,
> I am trying to locate a new type of X-ray film and supplier in the US
> (east coast) for Gandolphi Camera work. We have been using Kodak direct
> exposure film however they are no longer making it. I have heard that
> Agfa Structurix D7 film is a possibile repacement however I am unable to
> locate a supplier here in the US. Any information about film and sources
> is most appreciated.

I can't vouch for the company or whether the film is exactly what you need,
but you can by AGFA Structurix D7 in different formats here:

https://trorderonline.thomasregister.com/TrooFrame.tpl?&Origin=VURL&NoCache=
1049146305&AZNumber=64498009&CatalogID=2975&SupplierID=3556&PHID=49968&PHLas
t=30&ItemCount=387&PHName=Film%3A%20X-Ray&AlphaStart=1&ItemViewStart=1&Spine
=Spine.tpl&Navigation=ItemNav.tpl&BuyerSelection=ViewItems.tpl&RequestClass=
ViewItems&RequestMethod=itemSearch

If that link is too long, try

https://trorderonline.thomasregister.com/TrooFrame.tpl?Origin=VURL&AZNumber=64498009

then click on "Film: X-Ray (387)"

--
Bev Vincent
www.RigakuMSC.com


Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 16:29:57 -0400
Subject: Film for Gandolfi

Colleagues,
        We have now accomplished the first test using Fuji IX150 X-ray Film for
Gandolfi work.  Was able to cut 4.5x17 inch sheets into 3 films for
standard cylinder (360x35mm) and get a reasonable pattern with this fine
grain film.  Next, we have to test it in comparison to an equivalent
exposure of Kodak DEF to see how much longer exposures might have to be.
Cheers,
George


------------------------------------------------------------------
George E. Harlow, Ph. D.         gharlow@amnh.org
Dept. Earth and Planetary Sciences,
Division of Physical Sciences,   A.M.N.H.
Central Park West at 79th St., NY, NY 10024-5192  U.S.A.
Phone (212)769-5378     FAX  (212)769-5339


Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 08:51:56 -0400
To: "L. Cranswick" [lzc@dl.ac.uk]
Subject: Re: Summary on X-ray film?
Cc: lachlan.cranswick@nrc.gc.ca

Lachlan,

         We have only tried the Fuji so far.  It is much slower than Kodak
NS was, perhaps between 25 and 50%; our exposures are running over 8 hours
rather than ~ 3.  For Gandolfi it also requires cutting strips of ~35 mm
from the sheet stock.  I will be making a jig to make that reproducible on
a large paper cutter.  The IX150 I bought as 4.5x17 inches for $171; the
Agfa D8 is available for $118 for the same size and amount.  Both from
www.henkenind.com (Texas).

Cheers,
George


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